How can I develop a relationship with Jesus?

[Speaker 1] Hey, welcome to the North You Asks Podcast. We're here to answer common questions that people have about theology, life, and culture.

[Speaker 2] Happy to be With you here today. My name is Crystal Taves. I'm the pastor of Discipleship here at Northview, and I'm joined by Joshua and by Jesse. We're all here. We're all here. We're back. We're back.

[Speaker 1] Season number two. That's right. to go with some good questions. We wanted to start off with a foundational question. Um how can I develop a relationship with Jesus? Um we have a lot of reasons why we want to talk about that, but uh why don't we start off with you, uh Joshua?

[Speaker 2] Why don't you talk about how you kind of I remember you standing up at a staff meeting saying this is important that we have a living relationship with Jesus. Almost everybody quotes John seventeen three because of you.

[Speaker 1] Oh yeah, okay, good. So so take it so walk Bible teaches us is our desperate need and uh what is the real gift of salvation. So John 3 16. Um most of us will be able to quote it or get close to that if you've grown up in a Christian home or been around the church for a while, right? It's the classic God so loved the world that he gave his only son. believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[Speaker 3] So there you just got the gospel in a nutshell, the good news that God loves us so much that he gave his son. If we believe in him, we won't die, we get eternal life. But the the the thing that we tend to do is we just run past that like we understand that we're not those words so fast, particularly the last two ones. I won't perish, I'll have eternal life. The most tempting assumption is to say, well that eternal life is life after this. Like I die and I go to heaven. So I don't die. Ultimately, spiritually, I get to go to heaven.

[Speaker 1] And yet, John 17, three, this is now Jesus in the same gospel. So which is particularly notable because the terms are being used by the same author in the same way. So John 17, three, Jesus says he's praying to his father.

[Speaker 3] Father, uh, he says, This is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God in Christ whom you send. So he he defines for us what we've run past in John 3, 16.

[Speaker 1] I get eternal life if I believe in him. I won't perish. But what I'm gonna What is that eternal life? According to Jesus, it is to know the only true God and Christ whom he sent.

[Speaker 3] So eternal life, the offer of salvation for you and me, is the offer of a living relationship with the living God.

[Speaker 1] It's to know him. So everything that we're given in salvation, the forgiveness of our sins, adoption as daughters and sons, they are in a sense, in a very real sense, means to an end.

[Speaker 3] They are the means by which God has chosen to bring us to Him to define the relationship we now have. I'm not forgiven in a vacuum.

[Speaker 1] I'm forgiven so that I can come to the holy God and know him as my father. So that's uh those those are a couple of verses you're gonna hear me probably say a lot, uh, even over the course of these uh these podcast episodes. But I just think they're so ground floor, they're so central uh to be a Christian is to know God. Yeah, and I think the really helpful thing about that is like all the pieces you mentioned in terms of how all these attributes or how all what God has done for us contributes to that, but also the fact that eternal life starts now. It doesn't start like in some future time after we die.

[Speaker 3] Eternal life begins now because now we are getting to know God and in our time here on earth we're getting to know him better and then we will have this eternity of getting to know him.

[Speaker 1] So that eternal life is not something pushed off to the future, but something that happens as we are converted, as we become Christians. So good. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the kind of theological reason why it's important to have a relationship with Jesus because that's what he's offering to us as we come to him as his uh children. There's also a practical reason why we wanted to bring this up. because it's part of our mission statement at Northview. So Jesse, why don't you unpack kind of our mission statement and and how we visualize that? Yeah, sure. Pastor Mark will tell us this all the time, like every church or every Bible believing church hopefully has a mission statement. some sort of phrase or sentence that connects to the mission Jesus gave us in Matthew 28, go and make disciples. But Northview over the last number of years, uh probably before my time even, uh defined it this way, that we exist to help people become deeply rooted followers of Jesus. So like you were saying Joshua, the eternal life is knowing God. It's not just like, oh I uh that's an awareness of Him or I I acknowledge that there is a person called Jesus.

[Speaker 3] There is in and in our mission statement there's a follow There is there's an actual person there to know in the relational sense. So deeply rooted followers of Jesus is what we want to be, what we want to become, what we want to help others to be and become as well. And so sometimes though, and and you see this in other organizations or even churches, like, oh that's a nice phrase. That's a nice little thing you throw out there, but like what does that actually mean? Like how do I know I've done that? Yeah, what what would success look like if we actually did this? And so recently We have in conversation and looking into scripture, like what are we after? What is this thing that we're trying to produce? What is a deeply rooted follower of Jesus? So if you could imagine in your mind's eye, uh an image of a tree with three parts, roots and trunk. And like leaves with fruit on it. Let me take you through how we see that image being very helpful for defining well what actually is a deeply rooted follower of Jesus. And it would start down at the roots, someone who is rooted in Jesus. I I was thinking about this just moments ago. Colossians two, Paul talks about uh two verse six, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith just as you were taught. So one of the most common phrases for a Christian in the New Testament is someone who is in Christ.

[Speaker 1] So there is a a rootedness to that.

[Speaker 3] That is something you're united with Jesus at the core of who you are. Uh you're you know, you're root in relationship with him. You're rooted in his Word in his story with his people and community. So that's the roots of the tree. I mean as you move up, though, okay, a tree isn't just roots and a and a growing tree is gonna expand and take shape and reach new heights. The trunk of the tree would be as we move from being rooted in Jesus to then being remaining in Jesus. And you see this in John 8 to the Jews who believe Jesus like, look, if you remain in my teaching, you're really my disciples. And in John 15, there's this this great beautiful invitation, abide in me, remain And you know, as as a you know, all agricultural pieces would understand you you know you you need to bear fruit in a certain way. Jesus is saying, Look, you can't do that without me. So apart from me you can do nothing.

[Speaker 1] So you've got the roots. You're rooted in Jesus. You're remaining. Remaining in tree, Jesus, that's the trunk of the tree. And now to the the top, the the place that's maybe most visible, most celebrated, you know, the leaves, the fruit.

[Speaker 3] We are bearing fruit by the spirit. And that's not just a neat, like, oh great, we came up with a vision. visual to talk through that actually is very much biblical language. So Galatians chapter five, something that might be familiar to you, you know, you're you're walking in the spirit, there's life there, and he produces something. There's a result of that. And Paul uses language of fruit. It's like you're there's something coming out of your life. And so in our tree visual, those who are rooted in Jesus at the roots, remaining in Him as the trunk, they bear fruit by the spirit. So we we see results of these things. So we see that list from Galatians five. We see those things produced in our lives. We see things happen like we're loving God, we're loving neighbor. Uh, we're engaging in the great mission he has for us. Uh, and that's for for the glory of God. So there's something that we're after in that way. And we could talk through all other diff definitions. It's for the good of the city as well. It's for our, you know, loving our neighbor. All those sorts of things, but picturing that tree, that's what we're after, a deeply rooted follower of Jesus, from the roots all the way up to the fruit. That's good. What I what I love about the descriptions you just gave is that everything is dependent on the first part, the rooted in Christ, right? The dynamic that to to connect the dots of what we just even just said together, that it all starts with knowing him and and and then abiding in him and embracing him and keeping in step with him. All of that comes back to whether or not we are living and breathing and enjoying a relationship with God. You you can't have a tree with a trunk and branches and fruit without roots in the ground. It would die.

[Speaker 1] It just doesn't work that way. So just a great great connection of those two thoughts.

[Speaker 3] Yeah, and there's lots of other kind of biblical imagery that goes around those thoughts, like in Psalm And Jeremiah 17, where talks about kind of our roots being down into God's Word, meditating on God's Word, which then shows us the person of Jesus, right?

[Speaker 1] And roots us um in the midst of storms and that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of different imagery. And if you look at these images that we have kind of on our website, Or in our membership classes, we'll have different other scripture passages that talk to different ideas around this idea, but the core idea is that fact that, yeah, it's all about that relationship with Jesus.

[Speaker 2] What we're rooted in, that we remain in, and that we bear fruit. The Holy Spirit has come to make Jesus known. You know, in our lives and also to the people the world around us. So as we bear fruit by the Spirit, we're making Jesus known in the world around us. And so it's all about a relationship with Him. So I think all of us at times, kind of, or all of us looking back on our own lives, if we do have a sense of a personal relationship with Jesus, it's kind of been a bit of a trajectory.

[Speaker 1] Like you start off with kind of a conceptual maybe understanding a conceptual maybe asking Jesus.

[Speaker 2] And as you've grown hopefully as you've grown older and more mature. Uh, your your relationship with Jesus has also deepened. So I thought I'd just talk a little let's have us share a little bit about like what does that look like in our own lives.

[Speaker 1] Because there might be people listening that say, like, I believe this stuff but I don't feel like I have a relationship with Jesus. Like I have a conceptual ascent. what the scriptures say, what I hear in church, but I don't feel like Jesus is my friend or that he walks with me or whatever. So why don't you share, Joshua, what you start?

[Speaker 2] Like what would you say, what was that trajectory feel like for you? you know, thirty years of a story.

[Speaker 1] Um but I I think I think on the surface, one thing that's so brilliantly freeing and and wonderfully helpful about this dynamic of embracing the fact that what God has invited us into is a relationship with him, is knowing that the God who invites us into relationship with him is the God who designed us. us and made us as human beings to exist as we do.

[Speaker 3] And as human beings, we learn and we grow. We develop. That's how he made us. That's not a that's not a a problem. That's something that's a part of what it is. It's a feature of what it means to be human.

[Speaker 1] And so as a kid, you you might get a picture of God. That is he's he's a big up in heaven. He, you know, uh all the stars are are his handiwork and my God is so big.

[Speaker 3] You know, like just all these things that you start to to build a picture of him, uh, and you know that he saved you, all those things start in this kind of seed form. uh that grow and develop over time and and there's something so freeing I think about embracing that. No matter where you are in the journey, we're always gonna look and say, I'm not as far as I want to be. You're gonna feel that. That's just kind of what it is to live in a sinful broken world and we look at ourselves and we're like I just don't want to I wanna think the way I do. I don't want to the way I do it. You know it to let the the the air back in the room a little bit to say God's not surprised at where you are and how you're developing and how long it's taking in any of that. He designed you to learn and grow.

[Speaker 1] And you're gonna make mistakes along the way as you're you're living in a broken world and you still battle with sin in your own flesh. So so yeah, for me, um it it started when I was roughly 10 or so, I think. Um I remember having a conversation with my mom in the car after church. And I don't I don't remember exactly how the conversation went, but it it culminated in me saying, um I I think I I wanna ask Jesus into my heart, which is, you know, not language that I would use today or or pass on to people.

[Speaker 3] It's not really biblical language, but it's all I knew. And so by God's grace, you know, I I think it's more than acceptable to him. In my ignorance, you know, I'm I'm expressing something real. Uh and so I'm I would point back to that as the the first moment where I'm like, this is real. This is what I want to do. And then it was years and years and years and years of uh when I look back, man, not following through on that commitment to follow Jesus. I I wasn't that wasn't bad, you know, terrible whatever. whatever, uh off the off my rocker, people looked at it and said, That's a terrible kid.

[Speaker 1] But but I just knew in my heart I wasn't really chasing Jesus by any means. It wasn't until my grade twelve year that that turned around and God just kind of put a spotlight on my my pride. So f for this, you know, even to the development picture. It took it took years for me to finally have this inward looking sense of, oh my, I really fall short more than even I remembered back at 10 years old.

[Speaker 3] Um, but in terms of the practical nature of it, so that's you know, and then there's years from grade twelve on. until now, um, of of the Lord being gracious to me.

[Speaker 1] But uh I I just think the simplicity of it um really comes down to what um there's a there's a book by Dane Ortland um called Deeper and he describes what he calls the breathing of the Christian life, which is so helpful.

[Speaker 3] And the most basic things that you and I do in a living relationship with the living God is we breathe. We speak to him, breathe out. In prayer, we speak to him and we breathe in his word. So prayer and Bible reading, just like any conversation, if I'm gonna have a meaningful relationship with anyone. anybody. I'm gonna talk to them and then I'm gonna listen to them. If I'm just talking and I'm never listening, that's all there's no real relationship there. They're a sounding board. And if I'm listening and never talking, I'm never engaging. Um, but God invites us to pray and he invites us to hear him through his word. That he's given to us in the scriptures.

[Speaker 1] So that has been the thing that for me just over time has developed. Um, it has developed into seasons of more rigor of Bible reading, and it has developed into seasons of more freedom and relaxed Bible reading, but along the way there's been prayer. So not sure if I'm I'm capturing everything in your question there, but that's been generally the this the summary of my journey and what I think God has been at at work doing in me. And again, I just think that uh by God's grace embracing the fact that as a human being we grow. Even Jesus, it says, you know, grew in favor with God. and man. Jesus, God himself, the son of God, as a human being, grew in favor. There's there's uh a a degree to which this is the norm for human experiences, growth and development. So Jesse give us a bit of a glimpse into your journey. I I I actually I'll I'll speak on that by going back to something you said, Joshua, about like I don't know if I would use the language of asking Jesus into my heart, even though that was a very common way it was expressed kind of when I was growing up as well.

[Speaker 3] Um So this coincides with my story a little bit was it was r I was around fourteen, um, grew up in a Christian home, so I knew a lot of, you know, the ideas of God and stories from the Bible, those sorts of things.

[Speaker 1] But at fourteen I was uh attending a a a summer bible camp and This idea of like I need to make this like this is for me. This isn't just like a general thing that you can just ag agree with. Like you have to actually own this, like for yourself. And it's like, Oh, I I want to do that. But also at that same kind of camp experience, I I I remember being asked the question because I wanted to come back and serve shortly after that personal ownership part.

[Speaker 3] Us actually the week after. And the question was, Well, how would you lead someone to Jesus? Like if they want to become a Christian. unquote, what would you tell them to do? And so sure that like ask them in your heart thing, like you could make a case why what maybe the concepts work. But the biblical language of repent and believe I think has been has stuck with me for a long time and is easy to to forget or miss or maybe just think there's there's some something else but the this is the Bible's language for it as the as the early church proclaimed the gospel as Jesus himself in Mark 1. Like repent and believe. So there has to be a turning and a trusting and so That turning and trusting for me happened at fourteen in the most clear way I can think of. Like I I think I'd pray some sort of prayer before when I was younger and all those sorts of things, but yes, that that repent and believe the gospel part. Okay, yes. So and then repent. believe and be baptized. That was kind of the of the often normal sequence of events in the the earliest form of the church. Uh that baptism part didn't happen until I was a closer to I was in I was twenty. So kind of like you, there was like a yes I I'm gonna make this commitment. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna follow Jesus. Um, but there have been key moments of like and baptism being one of them where it's like this decision or this life with God feels way more serious and real and joyful. Um so maybe just two things I'll just touch on before I pass it back to you, Crystal. The that breathing in and out. So prayer and Bible. It should be no surprise that that actually is kind of what we're gonna talk about when it comes to growing in our relationship with Jesus or developing that. that walk with Christ.

[Speaker 1] Uh I think sometimes we think well sure, sure, sure that uh but what else? And it's like secrets. Well are you actually doing those things?

[Speaker 3] Like have has someone walked with you in that? Has someone given you counsels to what that looks like and how to how to deepen that. And even enjoy it more. So if I could nuance the those two a little bit, two things for me that have been really helpful, and this started at around 14 and is carried through never never lost it all these, you know, 20 plus years.

[Speaker 1] When it comes to scripture, the actually the idea of memorizing amazing scripture like sitting with it to a degree where it gets like in you and it's just like like Psalms talks about like oh you know I've hidden your word in my heart Psalm nineteen like there is almost like a I'm gonna talk this away I'm gonna hold on to this I'm gonna hang on to this because in the moments, especially in the hard moments of which we're all gonna have, there's a where is God?

[Speaker 3] Can I can I hear his voice? What is he saying to me? And sometimes the spirit will, as he does, guide us into truth, but truth that is already tucked away in there. So I think that memorizing and that you know my my parents instilled that in me, the the camp I went to instilled it in me, that's a bit of a lost I was gonna say art, but it's a bit of a lost kind of priority for us. It's like well I'll read it or I'll hear someone preach on it, but to sit with it for a while and get it really into us. Right. Um, especially in the earlier ages. If you can start that earlier, the the better, right? But um Bible memorization, knowing what God says and having it tucked away, uh super helpful.

[Speaker 1] And then on the prayer part, um um and this is where prayer and scripture have gone really hand in hand for me to pray scripture.

[Speaker 3] Like like Lord I so James one was a perfect example. And I this is a regular one I go to as a pastor. So James one five, if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God. He gives generously. Okay. Um God, you tell me that if I lack wisdom, you will give me generously. It doesn't say how, it doesn't say when or all those sort of things, but it says you'll give it generously. So throughout my life, praying the scriptures like you've told me this, so I'm gonna ask Ask you told me this, so I'm gonna declare you've told me this, so I'm gonna say thank you. Has really you know made prayer a kind of a a an an easy thing to devote myself to, an easy thing to to find a lot of life in, uh to experience. Like Christ is real to me. me and actually watch him do those things. So you know even even this morning, like Lord, I lack wisdom. Here I am again. Uh somehow always seem I I feel dumb. But you say you will give me wisdom. So Lord I I've got this meeting coming up.

[Speaker 1] I've got this what you say in your word this, so I'm gonna ask for this. You say in your word this. So I'm gonna thank you. You say in your word. So praying scripture and memorizing it, two really helpful things that I've found throughout my life. Yeah, and praying like all kinds of scripture, but the Psalms specifically too, if we don't know how to pray. Um it gives us so much language for prayer. We can complain before God. We can pour out our hearts.

[Speaker 2] We can celebrate. for prayer. Totally. Yeah. When I think back to my own life, I became I would kind of had that informal moment of like asking Jesus into my heart, as we're saying when I was about six.

[Speaker 1] Uh our tea uh my Sunday school teacher had taught on John three sixteen and I just thought wow if God loved me so much. No, just John three six. We only got half the message, Joshua. So close. It's still good. But I was overwhelmed by his love for me at that point. But I w when I was a teenager, there was a funny situation.

[Speaker 2] I had this dog that was like he hated every other dog and he could not be seen walking around the streets with other dogs. So I'd go hide in the woods so I could hang out with my dog. But hiding in the woods away from other people gave me time to think and reflect and see God's beauty in nature. And I started bringing my Bible with me into the woods.

[Speaker 1] And I started praying as I was out in the woods because I was kind of hiding and having kind of a secret spot. And God just opened my heart like as a teenager to the fact that, oh, this isn't just about like going to church.

[Speaker 2] This is about like a loving relationship with this Lord. Lord, who loves me and I felt his scriptures coming alive to me.

[Speaker 1] And um yeah, it was just a really neat awakening to the sense that this was more than just an intellectual thing.

[Speaker 2] This was actually a relationship that I was gonna have with Jesus and he was just opening me to that. Uh when I left high school, I went to France for a summer, and I was the only Christian in this group of 85 people. And I remember thinking, I am in France, nobody I don't know anybody here.

[Speaker 1] I could be whoever I want here and to try to do it. and fit in and nobody back home would know because none of these people live in Hatt. I could just ditch my faith, I could be whoever I want to be to fit into this group. And I came to this crisis point one night where I felt like I wanted to do that. And then I thought, but I don't know what life would be like without Jesus. I can't just jump over that cliff. And that moment for me was this turning point or this just kind of a stake in the ground. Like this doesn't feel like the popular thing to do. This doesn't feel like it's gonna make my life easier. This doesn't feel like it's gonna be fun.

[Speaker 2] But I just can't turn my back I just gotta keep going. Um and so there's been a few moments like that in my life where I think that God's clarified. It's kind of like, I mean, this is a different example, but when you have the passage in Exodus 33 where Moses or God says to Moses, you know, take the promised land. I'm not going with you.

[Speaker 1] And Moses is like I don't want promised land.

[Speaker 2] I know, but like that was almost that moment for me, like I I felt like I could, you know, kinda grab life without Jesus or I could stick with Jesus and I wanted to stick with Jesus. And so I feel like throughout my life there's been those moments where God's kind of solidified, Jesus is solidified, no, this relationship is really important. And so I've had times where in my adult life where I haven't been in the Bible for like a year, a couple years at a time, and then realize, oh no, this is actually something I need. and is vital to me and kind of got reset, re-back on the path.

[Speaker 1] And then different seasons of life, specifically times when we had a lot of uncertainty or a lot of hardship, where that was my basic only recourse.

[Speaker 2] Like I couldn't solve any solution. my own. I didn't have any resources to solve anything. I just needed to be um before the Lord in prayer and beseeching him and his help and his strength for every day.

[Speaker 1] And those situations kind of developed a a a greater thirst, I think, for for Jesus that he gave me just a thirst. for for who he is, for his word, for being in relationship with him and that sense of being grounded in him. So yeah, totally as you say, it's a it's a thing you grow with over time and it's a thing that God superintends. I don't I don't think we have to be thinking we have to create it. I think we just need to be kind of listening and obedient to God as He's directing us. Because He's the one directing our growth, even as it says in First Corinthians three, right? Paul letters, Paul's plants, whatever, but God gives the growth. And so as we submit ourselves to him and Ask him to lead and guide us, he's gonna help us grow. That's really good. Yeah. So those are kind of practical stories. When you think about, you know, in order for somebody to grow as a Christian, what kind of things, if we think like head, heart, hands. Sure. What kind of things do people need to know, or what kind of truths do they need to meditate on, do you think, if they want to grow? What kind of things would it be helpful to point them towards if they want to grow in the relationship with God?

[Speaker 3] So what would you say the thing the truths that they kind of need to meditate on or think about? Yes, okay. But I uh often when I'll sit down with people and talk about how how do you uh what are the basics of Christian life? What what is the basics of following after God and enjoying salvation and having what you've received? Um I I'll I'll point to four things. Um gospel, Bible, prayer, church. We've talked about Bible prayer. You know, uh I speak to him in prayer, he he speaks to me through his word.

[Speaker 1] That's the living dynamic of the relationship. But gospel, um making sure that we're we're looking at those four different categories and and making sure they're present in our lives regularly, actively, we're we're pressing into them.

[Speaker 3] The gospel as the foundation for the relationship. What gives me the right to even have a relationship with God? It's not because I could ever possibly earn it. I do not deserve it. Right? We are not justified by works of the law, Galatians 2. But by faith. The grandmother. of my salvation is not my performance. The the ground of my relationship with God is not what I have been able to do, but what he has done for me.

[Speaker 1] Right?

[Speaker 3] Um this is this is uh Ephesians two, for by grace you've been saved through faith. This is not your own doing. So That no one may boast is the gift of God. So the reason that I have relationship with God, the reason I can even talk to him is because he has graciously forgiven me through the blood of his son, Jesus Christ.

[Speaker 1] I have trusted in him, I believe him, and now When I get to speak to him in prayer and when I get to hear from him and I go out and live my life, I'm gonna make mistakes, I'm gonna say dumb things, I'm gonna do things I shouldn't do, I'm gonna sin.

[Speaker 3] That's gonna be real. But my relationship was not established because I stopped sinning, it was established because of the what Jesus did and I trusted in him.

[Speaker 1] So now I can come back to him and pray. I can come back to his word and hear from him. Not because I've earned the right to do that, but because he's given it to me, right? This first or John one, right? He has given us the right to be call children of God.

[Speaker 3] He handed it to us. That's grace. So the gospel as the ground floor for why you and I can even engage in the relationship that we have. So meditating that reality that I don't deserve this. And yet, God, you want me to come to you. You want you you call me, this is Hebrews. boldly approach the throne of grace, like with confidence, even though I I should have my tail between my legs. He says boldly, you know what I've done for you, come. So letting that be what grounds me and stabilizes me and allows me to then go speak to him and hear from him.

[Speaker 3] And even uh John four, first John four, um the argument that John makes there is that all of our love for him and our love for others is ultimately response to his love for us, right? We love because he first loved us. So if I I want to be uh richer and fuller in my love for him and my love for others as I walk out this Christian life, there's only one place to go, according to first John four. It's to go and enjoy the love that God has for me. This is Seconds three sixteen, we all with unveiled face beholding the the glory of God are transformed. How am I changed? It'

[Speaker 3] And even uh John four, first John four, um the argument that John makes there is that all of our love for him and our love for others is ultimately response to his love for us, right? We love because he first loved us. So if I I want to be uh richer and fuller in my love for him and my love for others as I walk out this Christian life, there's only one place to go, according to first John four. It's to go and enjoy the love that God has for me. This is Seconds three sixteen, we all with unveiled face beholding the the glory of God are transformed. How am I changed? It'